Discuss “Students discuss transgender issues”

1. Femme
Mar 04, 2008 at 08:17 AM

And so the issue between the term transexual and transgender.

"These binary gender classifications"

I find more of the transgender community fighting the bianary issues, the people who are transexual working to bring their body into one of them.

MOst people that are transexual want to use the women's or men's bathroom, depending on which is their gender.

Clearly there needs to be an education program initiated and possible some bathrooms created that either gender, or gender less, person can use but these must be separate from the few that have been set aside for people who have disabilities.

Far too often it's these washrooms that become the all purpose free use stall leaving those who need the specially built stalls waiti8ng on someone who is able bodied and who could use any typical bathroom.

2. Femme
Mar 04, 2008 at 08:19 AM

And so the issue between the term transexual and transgender.

"These binary gender classifications"

I find more of the transgender community fighting the bianary issues, the people who are transexual working to bring their body into one of them.

MOst people that are transexual want to use the women's or men's bathroom, depending on which is their gender.

Clearly there needs to be an education program initiated and possible some bathrooms created that either gender, or gender less, person can use but these must be separate from the few that have been set aside for people who have disabilities.

Far too often it's these washrooms that become the all purpose free use stall leaving those who need the specially built stalls waiti8ng on someone who is able bodied and who could use any typical bathroom.

3. Moe Smith
May 06, 2008 at 09:15 PM

This is a terrible argument. Listen, what percentage of the population is trans-gender? Yes, a very small amount. Why should the policy in every public place change just to cater to trans-gender people? It makes no sense at all. Thats like saying that every single restaurant in America should serve Kosher food, Halal meat, have separate silverware for meat dishes and vegetable dishes etc. If you have a penis, you go to the men's room. If you have a vagina, you go to the women's room. It is really that simple.

4. Jon Miller
May 06, 2008 at 10:59 PM

Yeah, Moe is right!

I'd just like to expand on a few of the trenchant observations he makes.

1) The costs necessary to provide unisex bathrooms on a large scale draw from everyone. Since the overwhelming majority of people (including lawmakers)are not transgender or transsexual, it is unrealistic to expect a wide-scale change in bathroom accommodations. Since transgender and transsexual people represent a small (and, as the author notes, not always legally protected) minority, if bathroom choice is truly one of the most significant problems facing transgender and transsexual people, aligning with other groups (i.e. people with physical disabilities) or seeking universal legal protection would be a better first step.

2) Though the author's criticisms of "binary gender classifications" is valid (gender conscious writers such as Charlotte Perkins Gilman make this point quite compellingly), this does not translate into a criticism of binary sex classifications. Since bathrooms are meant to distinguish between sexes, not genders, Moe's insightful restaurant analogy is a relevant one. People pursuing Kosher or other strict diets could eat the food at any restaurant, but choose not to because of their religious beliefs. Their religious beliefs do not render them physically incapable of eating non-Kosher food. Similarly, transgender and transsexual people make a choice about their gender based on deep-seeded beliefs (that their gender does not match their sex), but this decision does not render them incapable of classifying themselves as male or female when necessary. Thus, Moe's final point, though bold in its simplicity, is absolutely correct.

3) Where are you going to put the bathrooms? There are other rooms there. They need space too. Put your thinking cap on and consider that one!

That is all.

-Jon

5. Sean Wellington III
May 06, 2008 at 11:39 PM

I don't know if I can add anything to the discussion, as Moe has captured the salient points of the argument so well already. I will try.

To the author:
Do you really think not having unisex bathrooms is discriminatory? If your belief that this is a discriminatory practice is a matter of principle, then you should be turning your attention to much larger problems that affect a much wider swath of the population. What about non-Christian holidays? Is our government's failure to recognize Ramadan, Yom Kippur, or Diwali discriminatory as well? To build on Moe's now famous restaurant analogy; if a restaurant does not serve Kosher food, is that discrimination against the Jewish community? Obviously not. To quote the Rolling Stones, "You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need." Mick Jagger may as well have been singing about the restroom choice problem. While transgender and transsexual individuals may not always have access to the unisex facilities they desire, they do not need them. And if they try sometimes, they just might find a men's or women's restroom.

Signing Off,
Wellington

6. John Green
May 06, 2008 at 11:51 PM

I am going to have to agree with the above two posters full heartedly. I sympathize with the ill social treatment that transgender people get, but it is simply ludicrous to start implementing legislation so that transgender people do not feel uncomfortable when going to the bathroom. I am sure that the vast majority of trips to the bathroom, while possibly awkward, never end in direct confrontation with another individual. Not being a transgender person myself, this is of course an assumption, not fact. The fact is that our government needs all the money it can to build more tanks and nuclear missles to fight the growing threat of invasion by China and South Africa, not build unisex bathrooms. I do however support legislation protecting the rights of the transgender community fully.

7. Me
May 07, 2008 at 12:46 AM

I went to the bathroom today. I walked in, stepped in front of the urinal, unzipped my fly, and let 'er rip. I shook off a couple drops, tucked it back in, and zipped up for safe keeping until next time it I need it (or it needs me). Now during this experience, I had no religious breakthroughs, and no sense of connection with any group of people, including the male gender. Letting the anaconda roar has nothing to do with my attachment with the male gender, it has to do with with my hormonally pre-determined organs. If you your dad's semen made you a girl, then use the ladies room (that's the one with the stick figure in the dress for all you n00bs out there), otherwise you let it rage in the men's room (its the one right next to the ladies room). Simple as that.

So what exactly are you proposing, that we have a room in between the two others labeled "Purgatory"? Furthermore, if anyone is allowed to just pick which bathroom they use on any given day, what's to stop any old pervert to just stroll into the opposite sex's sanctuary? I know plenty of dudes that would claim they were a transgender in order to catch a glimpse of some nipples.

Listen, I'm not trying to offend anyone or hurt anyone's feelings, I think transgender discrimination is a serious issue. All I'm saying is that with a public voice comes responsibility: the responsibility to make sure that if you're going to write about a serious issue, please write about the real issue of discrimination and not just a trite little aspect of someone's indecisive day.

Please use the Tartan for real articles, not petty whining. Thanks a bunch. Peace.

P.S. Moe rules!

8. DownWithTransphobia
Sep 13, 2008 at 12:23 AM

You know something? It's people like Moe and the subsequent posters, who agreed with his viewpoint, that fan the flames of transphobia. I personally know someone who has transitioned from male to female (call her Lexi), so I suppose I'd have a better understanding of the situation than the general population. Right now, Lucy is perfectly passable and uses women's rooms without any difficulty, but that did not come without efforts and agony on her part, and she has told me many stories about being denied bathroom access because of her gender situation.

First and foremost, gender segregation does not make bathrooms safer. Transpeople are no more likely than the general population to be sexual predators and any sexual predator, who is intent on committing an assault, can easily ignore a bathroom's gender designation - I've actually seen a deranged man walk into the women's room (the word on the door was powerless to stop him) and assault someone.

Second of all, asking people to choose a bathroom by their genitals in downright inhumane. Transsexuals want to assimilate with their desired gender to the fullest extent possible and denying them the right to use that gender's bathroom is a great hindrance to that. Like suppose my friend Lucy were talking to a group of her girl friends, when one needed to go to the bathroom and the rest of the group came with. If she looked and passed reasonable female, why would she have to be left out? If the girls asked her why she's not coming, why on Earth would she have to out herself to them by going into the men's room?

Third of all, consider a period in Lucy's transition when she wasn't perfectly passable, but looked more female than male. No one could see her private parts (why on Earth would she expose them to the public?), so if she entered the women's room, chances are all would be OK. If she entered the men's, by contrast, the men and the boys (who have just as much a right to comfort and privacy as girls and women) might have been uncomfortable with her. Worst comes for worst, they could have read her as trans and assaulted her, taking advantage of the camera-free environment? Is this really ethical? Forcing someone to abstain from going to the bathroom for a long time, is similarly cruel, esp. if it involves withholding fluids. For someone changing gender, this can be especially hard when they prescribe Spironolactone, a diuretic designed to block male sex hormones. When Lucy reached that point, she was lucky to be passing well as a woman (and all because she got to do it when she was young), but those who don't get to do it so early are just as entitled to that right. Abstaining from fluid intake is not a viable option, as dehydration can be life-threatening and a trip to the ER costs a lot more than maintaining a gender-neutral bathroom.

So, please, be sensitive and respectful.